Sandy – I don’t have any questions about anything for you.  You can carry on and do what you need to do and –

 Jim – I’m trying to.  I really am trying to.

 Sandy – All you need to do is that you better make sure that before you put something on that radio show on Sunday about me that you better double check it.  Because I will take action.  And don’t think I won’t.  I took action on the Free Press and I will take action on you and don’t think I won’t.  You want to listen to Lorelei B you better then you better look into Lorelei B’s past before you start listening to her.  And I’ll let your boss from that show know that too. 

 For someone that wants to stop the silence, she sure seems to want to fight to silence people.  As long as you respect the publication ban on the criminal case, everything that’s not sealed is fair game.

Jim – Have you found your Janet Ray profile yet?

Sandy – No I wrote it down.  I wrote it down.  I’m gonna, I’m just gonna turn it over to the crown attorney and the police.  I was in court today with the crown attorney.  You are getting a bit of information wrong.  I didn’t deny that I didn’t have an ugly court judgment and I can show you 3 or 4 from the same judge that are click and paste. 

No.  The judge doesn’t click and paste her court decisions.  She may have ruled against several moms in her time as a judge.  She also may have ruled against several fathers.  It’s what judges do.  They make rulings.  Typically several in a day.  In which case, 3-4 court decisions doesn’t sound like very many.

Jim – Well, you have my email address so anything that you can show me to defend your position.

Sandy – (Yelling) You know what?

Jim – You are more than welcome to.

Sandy – (yelling) I don’t need to prove myself to you.

Jim – then don’t

Sandy (yelling) – What do I need to prove myself to you for?  So Jim likes me?  What do I need to prove myself to you for. 

Jim – It’s not about proving anything Sandy I don’t understand why.  I don’t understand why you would threaten me and the radio station for no reason.

Because she’s afraid of being exposed.  And she will fight to keep herself looking like a true advocate for as long as possible.

Sandy – Well then I guess there’s not much that I can say.  You cannot publicly slander somebody and not be held accountable for that.  And that’s what I told you.

Jim – And you cannot come on the radio station and purport to be somebody that you’re not and when somebody finds out that it’s fraudulent and calls you on it you freak out and shut them down.  That shows more guilt than anything Sandy. 

 Sandy – No it doesn’t Jim.

 Jim – Oh absolutely it does. 

 Sandy – You do whatever you need to do but just don’t –

 Jim (cuts her off) – Oh I can’t cuz you silenced my voice.  So thank you for that.

 Sandy – You do whatever you need to do.

 Jim – I can’t because you silenced my voice.  (She was talking over him and I only made out the word slander) I haven’t slandered you I haven’t slandered anybody.  When?  How did I slander you? 

 Sandy – Past stuff.  I’m not getting into this.  I don’t owe you anything.

 Jim – What have I used.

 Sandy – Listen. 

 Jim – What have I used?

 Sandy – I don’t owe you anything

 Jim – What. Have. I. Used.

 Sandy – I don’t owe you anything.  I don’t answer to you.

 I just wanted to address the I don’t owe you anything.  She actually owes Jim a bunch of things.  She owes him a public apology for tearing his name through the mud (or attempting to), she owes him some money back from the Class Action that he’s no longer on.  Those are just two things she owes him off the top of my head.

Jim – What. Have. I. Used.

 Sandy – Goodbye Jim.  This is not going anywhere and I don’t owe you anything.  You continue to –

Jim – You don’t owe me anything but you are making an accusation that I’ve used stuff against you what have I used? 

 Sandy – I’m not going around in circles here.

 Jim – It’s not circles.  I’m asking you a simple question.  Why can’t you answer a simple question Sandy?  What have I used?

 Sandy – I don’t owe you anything and I don’t like your attitude.  It’s not something that I want to deal with.  You want to ask me something normally without being so accusing I’ll answer.  You wanna accuse me of everything?  I don’t owe you anything.  I don’t owe you a damn thing.  I don’t care what you think about me.  Go and spread as much as you want.  Because I will fucking sue you. And if you think I’m wrong? I think you’ll find out because my lawyer is on it.  I’m not pissing around here. 

 He’s asked you the same question in 75 different ways.  You aren’t answering because you don’t have one.  You are making shit up in an attempt to make him look like the party at fault.  When it’s not him.   Also, when you threaten to sue everyone that makes you angry, your threat has no weight.  Just FYI.

Jim – There’s nothing that I’m spreading so I’m not worried about it a bit. 

Sandy – Well,

 Jim –  I have nothing to worry about.  You’re the one who seems to be freaking out about stuff.

 Sandy – I am not freaking out about nothing. 

 Jim – Well, you kinda are.

 Jim’s right.  If you could hear her tone right now.  She’s freaking out about stuff.  She’s not happy he’s calling her out and she can’t get him back in her camp.  Not happy.

Sandy – I’m not the one that wanted to talk to you.  I’m not the one that wanted to talk to you.  You were trying to get ahold of me through H(redacted) on Punished 4 Protecting to try to mediate.  You were talking to L tonight.  Like I don’t need someone to call you to make nice.  Are you still there?

 Jim – Yeah I’m still here.  I’m looking at a Winnipeg Sun Article that states (redacted)

 Sandy – (talking over him) It’s the news!  It’s the news! 

 Jim – (redacted)

 Sandy – It’s the news. 

 Jim – So you’re saying, what are you saying then that the news is wrong?

 That is exactly what she’s telling you.  The news is wrong.  The court decisions are click and pasted because the judge (who is a women), hates women and hates mothers, and everything that you’ve read is not how it’s written.  It’s all exactly how Sandy explained it.  Because, you know, she’s had 11 months in jail to make up her stories.

End of Part 7.

 Sandy – If it was not nothing why did your boss cut off the radio show?

 Jim – Because you threatened legal action against him.

 Sandy – Well, you’re going on again on Sunday.  So, I don’t know.

 Jim –  You can’t have it both ways Sandy,

 Sandy- (interrupts) What are you talking about?

 Jim – It’s disconcerting to me that you say I’m attacking you and yet you’re the one who’s kicked me off your friends list, you’re the one that blocked me on punished 4 protecting, you are the one who’s continually coming after me when you’re being told that I have nothing to do with it and that I’m watching this from the sidelines.  And yet you still say that I’m responsible for attacking you.  It’s not true.

 Sandy – Because they have information that only you know.  So explain that.

 Jim – It’s not information that only I know.  It’s information on Canlii, it’s information that’s out there in the Winnipeg Free Press.

 Sandy – (raises voice) I’m not talking about shit like that.  I’m not talking about stuff like that.  (illegible as Jim starts talking over her)

 Jim – You’re talking about the lawsuit?  What are you talking about then?  You’re talking about the lawsuit?

 Sandy – I’m talking about – I’m talking about all the rest of the stuff. And I don’t really see-

 Jim – (interrupts) what stuff? Tell me what stuff.

 Sandy – I don’t really see where this conversation is going.

 Jim – What stuff are you talking about Sandy?

 Sandy – Why are we having this conversation.  You are just wanting to fight and like I said I don’t want to fight.

 Jim – It’s not a fight you’re telling me that I’m giving information and I’m asking what kind of information I’m giving and you can’t answer it.

 Sandy – I can answer everything so don’t try to tell me-

 You aren’t answering anything.  And you just went into fight or flight mode.  Which is indicative of lying.

Jim – Then tell me what information I’m giving.

 Sandy – I’m not interested in fighting I told you –

 Jim (interrupts) it’s not a fight at all, –

 Sandy- (talking over him) it is a fight.

 Jim – (continues) I’m asking you what information I am giving.

 Sandy – Jim I don’t need to explain this to you.  You darn well know that you are feeding how do you say that woman’s name?

 Jim – L (redacted)

 Actually, she made a bold statement, and does need to explain this to him.  If he’s doing something she should know what he’s doing.  The L redacted in this case is “that Williams girl”.  I will continue to call her that, as there seems to be a lot of L’s involved in this shitshow.

Sandy – L(redacted (that Williams Girl) and M(redacted) stuff so.

Jim – What am I feeding them?  What am I feeding them?  What’s coming to you that I am feeding them?  You tell me and I’ll tell you if I’m feeding it or not. 

Sandy- Well –

Jim (interrupts) – Cuz I’m not.

Sandy – I don’t feel that this conversation is warranted at this point because you know, I didn’t even want to have this conversation. 

Jim – I didn’t either.

Sandy – You didn’t.  Well then why did you phone me?

 Jim – I phoned you because you (illegible).  L(redacted) told me – L said to me that you two need to work it out.  Are you willing to talk to Sandy and I said L I can’t and I read your letter to L, the last paragraph that said if pardon me? (sandy had talked over him, and I couldn’t catch what she said either)

Sandy – She’s seen it before you did.

 Jim – She said she didn’t whatever.  So that last paragraph where you said don’t call me or I’ll have you charged with harassment.  And I said I can’t I respect that. So I said to L if Sandy wants to talk to me have her send me a text message cuz I have to just do some things in my house to get ready for this call mentally cuz I’m dealing with all kinds of stuff like we all are and you sent me a text message.  I-I-I can’t.  I’m not initiating anything with you guys. 

 Sandy – Why are you asking –

 Jim – (interrupts) – Now you’re accusing me of telling information to that Williams girl and M your names I’m asking you what information. 

 Sandy – There have been a lot of things-

 Jim – Like what?

 Sandy – And you know what –

 Jim – (interrupts) Like what Sandy?

 Sandy – (continuing) Jim I don’t really care.

 Jim – If you don’t care then stop saying it.   Now, tell me what the information is.  You don’t throw out unsubstantiated claims. 

 Sandy – I don’t feel I need to owe you anything at this point.

 She doesn’t need to owe him anything because now that he doesn’t believe her about her situation 100% without looking into it, his usefulness to her and her situation has run out.

Jim – That’s because it’s bullshit.  So when I say come clean, come clean.  (Sandy talking over him illegible) (redacted piece because of it’s related to the criminal case)

 Jim – How many lawyers have you gone through?

 Sandy – In uh the criminal court?

 Jim – Whatever.  Criminal Civil I don’t care.

 Sandy – Um I had a few different family lawyers.

 One day I will go more in depth on the habits of women that are alienators.  But right now I will just say, that based on my experience, if a woman gets more than two lawyers in a family court battle, unless it’s for reasons such as the lawyer retiring or dying or moving positions etc., it’s likely because the first several lawyers didn’t agree with what they were saying and they didn’t like what the lawyer told them regarding your case.

Sandy – But uh criminal I only had that one and now I got a new one and I’m (redacted).  You know all that.  You are looking to Lorelei B who’s ex-husband was under investigation for being into child porn.

 Lorelei’s husband is Mr. B in the Court papers.  He was only under investigation for child porn because he offered to assist with the transition of the kids to the father and Sandy didn’t like that.  You’ll see in the decision that Mr. B was completely exonerated in the judge’s eyes, in CFS’s eyes and in the police’s eyes.  But Sandy doesn’t make accusations she can’t back up.

Jim – I’m reading the information from Canlii – I’m reading information-

 Sandy – (interrupts) – Well there’s nothing on Canlii about a bunch of lawyers.

 No.  But there’s information on the Court Registry about a bunch of lawyers, and there’s information in the Free Press that you fired your criminal lawyer.

Jim – Well, I’m looking at all the adjournments in your case in the Manitoba Court Docket.   Why are there so many adjournments?  Why are we not dealing with this so you can get on with your life?

 Sandy – Do you see that all the filings on the registry are from my ex-husband and not me?

 She’s right.  About 2/3’s of the filings are from the father.  Because the mother had physical custody of the children and would not be reasonable to allow him to be an active and equal carer in the kids’ lives.  If she had he would not have been filing things over and over.

Jim – A lot of them aren’t from him.

 Sandy – Most of them are from him.

 Jim – It’s you- it’s you prolonging this.

 Sandy – No it’s not.

 Yes it is.  If you had agreed to his offer of shared custody, it would have been over a year and a half earlier.

Jim – The information that I’ve seen I see a lady who’s been investigated, a lady who’s been deemed by Child and Family Services to have unduly and inappropriately influenced her children, I see a lady who lost her kids.

 Sandy – No it’s not

 Jim – But that’s what the documents say against you.  That’s what the experts say.  That’s what the documents say. 

 Sandy – Well, it can change.

 Jim – Well, where’s the proof of it being changed?

 Sandy – Well why don’t you look at the appeal court one.  It said there was no evidence that I coached the kids.

 I’ve posted the Appeal Court decision.  You can find it in several parts on this blog.  It does not say what she thinks it said.

Jim – Well where can I find that?  (she was talking over him so I’m unsure what he was responding to)  Well I know you don’t but you’re telling me this information.  So now it comes back to-

 Sandy (yelling interrupting) I don’t know!  It doesn’t mean anything!  I don’t have to explain myself to you!  Did you hear me start off the conversation telling you that they’re not giving my daughter to him?  I was in court today.  They’re not giving her to him.  So before you start accusing me of things or thinking that I owe you anything I don’t.  Why don’t you give me your daughters or your wife’s phone number and I’ll call them and see what they have to say about (I’ve redacted her vulgar accusation).   

 Jim – I would absolutely give it to you but I don’t have it. 

 Sandy – Well, give me her name and I’ll find her.  I chose to believe you Jim.  And you know what?  I’m the only one on punished 4 protecting that believed you.  The only one Jim. 

 Liars do this to get people on their side.  I was the only one who believed you, so now you should just blindly believe me because of it.  She’s bitter and vindictive and trying to use his own trials to get him back on her side.  It’s disgusting and it’s sick.

 Jim – Well you have a funny way of showing it by blocking me from Punished for Protecting, by shutting me down, by sending a letter to the owner of the radio station shutting my show down.  You have a really funny way of showing it. 

 Sandy – Well, I think you have a funny way of showing things as well.

 Jim – I’m not showing you anything!  Sandy, what are you what are you-

 Sandy (interrupts) – You were going to take me down on your radio show based on the things that you’ve read?

 Well, most people trust things like court decisions and news reports over words out of a liar’s mouth….

Jim – I wasn’t going to take you down on anything Sandy I’m not taking you down on anything!  It’s not about taking down anyone it’s about finding out the truth.

 Sandy –  And the truth has come out.

 Jim – Oh it will come out.  Trust me it will come out.  And it is coming out.  And you’re in a bit of a precarious situation here. 

 Sandy – No I’m not.

 Jim – I- OK  Then you’re a little delusional.

 Sandy – Well I guess I’m just a little delusional then. 

 FINALLY SOMEONE HAS GOT HER TO ADMIT IT!

 End of part 6.

Jim – I don’t think the police believe you anymore Sandy.

Sandy – No?  I betcha they do.

Jim – I don’t.  The letter from the P4P legal team? that Mona Friesen sent me.

Sandy – That’s not me.

Jim – Yeah but you’re cc:ed in it. That letter –

Sandy (interrupting) it doesn’t matter.

Jim – That letter is bullshit.  Any legitimate lawyer, any legitimate lawyer would not put P4P legal team.  They would put this is xyz law firm at 123 Any street Calgary Alberta.

Sandy – (talking over him illegible) She sent it and I didn’t authorize her to send it out and I didn’t ask her to send it out.

Excuse number 7,598.  Not that I’m keeping track or anything.

Jim – your name is on it.  (illegible) attacking me Sandy.

Sandy (voice raised) No! 

Jim (cuts her off) yeah you are.

Sandy (voice more raised) No!

Jim – (first part illegible because Sandy’s talking over him) punished for protecting. You blocked me from your profile.

Sandy – I did not block you from my profile.

Jim – Yeah I am

Sandy – No you are not blocked from my profile.

Jim – I’m blocked from punished 4 protecting.

Sandy – you were blocked from punished 4 protecting.

Jim – Yes you did Sandy.

Sandy – No I did not. 

Jim – You told me not to call you because you were going to charge me with harassment and then you sent L(redacted) to contact me to try to make me

Sandy – No I did not ask her to.

Jim – Ok, then.  Something doesn’t add up Sandy, I have had a lot of information come across me in the last few days…. I – I- I don’t know what to say.

Sandy (ineligible mumbling)

At this point I feel like she feels backed into a corner and she’s just going to obtusely disagree with anything Jim says from hereon out.  I haven’t actually listed to the whole audio, so we will see if my prediction comes true.

Jim – I can honestly (Sandy talking over him) that I’m sick

Sandy – Because you’re listening to Lorelei B?

Jim – Come clean.

Sandy – What was that?

Jim – Come Clean.

Sandy – (raised voice) About what?

Jim – About all the shit that you are pulling.

Sandy – What am I pulling.

I’m just going to note.  A liar always claims to have no knowledge.  A liar will play dumb, to see if you know, and then try to redirect the conversation.

Sandy – What am I pulling?

REDACTED CONVERSATION, LIGHT INFORMATION ABOUT THE CRIMINAL CASE.

Sandy – Mmmm If you would actually if you would actually get into everything.  Are you recording this conversation?

First time she thought to ask.  11 minutes and 58 seconds in.

Jim – No I am not.  Why would I record the conversation.

Him being untruthful is not illegal.  Canada is a one party recording country.  If you are apart of the conversation you are allowed to record.

Sandy – I don’t know.  I’m asking you if you are recording this conversation.

Jim – No I am not.  Why would I record your conversation.

Sandy – I don’t know.  I’m asking you because there is a publication ban on this case.  And you are reading the early on stuff that was in the newspaper and have gotten nothing since.

Because there’s no publication ban on the earlier publications.  Only anything after July 10/17.

Sandy – Because there is a publication ban on this case.  And you have spent enough time talking to me to have got an impression off of me.  And if you haven’t then I don’t know why we have been talking all this time. 

He had a good impression of you until you showed your true colours.    She talks about this publication ban like it’s a ban to protect her.  It’s to protect her children.

Jim – Which makes this even all the more disconcerting to me because you’re the one who’s cut me off.  You’re the one who’s throwing my name under the bus even though people are telling me I had nothing to do with it you still come after me.  You’re responsible for shutting down my voice on the radio.  You’re responsible for sending an email and a phone call to somebody about nothing.

Sandy – It’s not about nothing.

Jim – And yet you come to me and say that I am attacking you.  That’s a pretty balsy move. 

I’m going to leave it at this last speech from Jim right here.    I’m just over 13 minutes in.

End of Part 5.

So you know, I don’t say or do things unless I can back myself up.  So that’s what you guys have done.  My daughter is having a hell of a time right now.

Jim – It’s not you guys.  Sandy like I’m watching this like you’re watching it, I’m not responsible for any of this.

Sandy – (voice raising) You are! You are feeding M(redacted) and that Williams girl information  to put on there.

Jim – I’m not feeding them a thing.

Sandy – (speaking over him) I’m not an idiot.  I’m not a fool.

Jim – I’m not feeding them a thing.  I’m seeing information Sandy that is not in your favour.  I’m reading court documents.

Sandy (talking over him) – I’ve seen things of you that are not in your favour-

Jim – like what?  Take a look.

Sandy – What’s in your court documents that’s not in your favour.

Jim – take a look.

Sandy – have you seen any court documents since those court documents online?  No you haven’t.  If you want to know things, then you should ask me instead of publically making a mockery of it.

Yes.  I’m sure that the court documents from the December Court of Appeals decision.  You know, the decision that was about a month ago.  That’s not recent.  Nope.  If he wants to know things, he should research them himself, instead of trusting a pathological liar.  You’ve shown him you’ve lied to him.  Why would he ask you about shit?

Jim – Who’s Jenna Robinson

Sandy – Who’s what?

Jim – Who’s Jenna Robinson

Sandy – I have no fucking idea!

Jim – You don’t?  Who’s Janet Roy? or Janet Ray?

Sandy – So now you’re accusing me of being other people?

Yes.  Yes that’s exactly what he’s doing.  He’s accusing you of having more than one profile.

Jim – I’m just asking you who Janet Ray is?

Sandy – I have no idea.

Jim – Really?  Because in Janet Ray’s facebook profile it has (kids redacted) in it.

Sandy – Well, are they on my –

Jim – interrupts Janet Ray’s

Sandy – (interrupts) on my page?

Jim I don’t know I’m uh I’m not on a page.  You banned me.

Sandy – Is it Lorelei B(redacted) putting it on there?

This has me laughing.  It MUST be Lorelei.  Because I can’t possibly own my own actions.

Jim – Why would she do that?  You didn’t answer my question, who’s Janet Ray?

Sandy – I have no idea Jim.

Jim – Ok

Sandy – It is not me.  I have my own facebook account, that I don’t have a problem speaking from.  From my own facebook account.  I do not talk from other people.  I am not ashamed of anything and I don’t have to hide from anything.  I am not politically engaged in this fight whether it’s a fake name or my own name.  It’s not something I do.  I haven’t been responding to you guys on that at all.  because I don’t get into that.  What’s this person saying that has my child’s picture on it? 

You aren’t afraid to say anything from your own name.  You’re right about that.  Except for one thing.  You are terrified to go back to jail.  So you post the worst things from Cass Kennedy, or your multitude of other profiles.  You then figured out that they can serve as extra numbers to you.  To sway people who don’t actually research the cause and the people to deem who is fake and who is real.  And lots of people choose to take what advocates say at face value, which is why it’s important to cross reference names and do a little research before believing someone wholly.

You have also responded.  You have made a Facebook Live on Punished about it.  You have gotten Jim’s show cancelled.  And who knows what your fakes are doing.

Jim – And yet you um phone the radio station and get my show shut down.

Sandy – You posted on there that you were going to expose me.  On the radio.

Jim – I showed my advertisement to the radio station owner yesterday and he said what’s wrong with this and I said I don’t know you tell me.  I showed my facebook –

Sandy (interrupts) ineligible

Jim – I showed my facebook profile to a lawyer here in alberta and he said what the hells the problem and I said I don’t know.

Sandy – Well I’ll tell you I took it to the police and it violates the publication ban.

Not if he’s not speaking of your criminal case.  Everything else is public record.

Jim – Who’s Cass Kennedy?

Oh yes.  Cass.  The most disgusting of the socks.

Sandy – Uh Cass Kennedy is a childhood friend of mine.  Listen um

Jim – Who’s __ May

Sandy – Who is uh I don’t know who that is, I haven’t come across that name.   What is the one that has my kids picture on it?

Jim – No it’s not your kids pictures if you do a search on Janet Ray on facebook when it says http://www.facebook.com/mine says Jim(redacted) 1 I think, in the url is (kidsnames) (kidsnamesreversed) or something. 

Sandy – What’s the name of it because I want to look it up or something.

Sandy.  He’s told you the name 3 times now.  Playing dumb does not make you look innocent.

Jim – Janet Ray

Sandy – Janet Ray I’m going to turn it over to that.  That Lorelei B is in a lot of trouble right now through the police, so I’m going to give them that as well.

Because it can’t be the logical answer.  Lorelei is making facebook profiles that identify Sandy, and that’s just the truth.  The Police will arrest Lorelei for everything.

end of part 4.

So, as mentioned in Part 2, unfortunately Jim’s interactions with Sandy did not end there.

Jim was the host of a radio show called Food for Thought.  Early January, the first ad for Food for Thought for the year came out.  Sandy chose to call the radio station and threaten legal action.  Because Jim and Sandy had a falling out, she assumed he’d talk about her, and decided to go on the offense.   Food for Thought got cancelled because of Sandy’s actions, so he chose to have a phone conversation with her to discuss the situation.

By this point, Jim was disillusioned with Sandy, and had the smarts to record the conversation.  It’s long, so I’m going to cover the first 20 or so minutes in this part.

it’s a little hard to hear at the beginning, but it seems like Sandy is doing other things when they got on the phone….

Jim – I am.

Sandy – I am just responding to an email from my dad…. he was here yesterday.  Anyway, what’s going on?

Jim – Well I have the same question.  I got a call from (redacted) and she said I need to call you and I said I am not calling you because you sent me an email that if I do I’ll be harassed so you shut the door, I respect that.

Sandy – Well, I don’t know if it was unwarranted.  Like, I don’t know what’s going on.  Like I don’t know why you guys are harassing me like this.  I never did anything to you. 

Wait.  At this point, this was after the facebook live where she (while not mentioning names) said he was an aggressive dad.  This was after she got his radio show cancelled.  But she never did anything to him.  Ho-kay.

Jim – I am not after you, I haven’t attacked you, I’m not responsible for any of this so I have – (Sandy starts talking over him) no idea what you’re talking about.

Sandy – I saw you’re making comments on that Real Mothers of Canada.  You put on there that you gave me money and you never heard from me again. 

Jim – No I didn’t.

Sandy – You said I should go to jail.  Well no one else gave me money.  You were the only one.  No one else did Jim. 

Jim – You told me Sandy that 18-20 people gave you money. 

Sandy – No- not 18-20.  12.  We counted it uh- last week. 

Jim – You told me that D(redacted) in Vancouver gave you money.

Sandy – Yeah

Jim – I spoke with D 2 nights ago

Sandy (interrupting) but nobody on Facebook.  That just means nobody but D and I spoke to D.

Jim – I spoke to D 2 days ago and he didn’t give you a dime.

Oh.  Wait.  I’m super confused.  First No one but Jim gave you money.  Then 12 people gave you money.  Then Jim and D are the only ones who gave you money.  I am approximately 2 minutes into this recording and your story has changed 3 times.   Who gave you money?  How much did they give?  If you’re attempting to obtain charity status, shouldn’t you kinda be keeping track of that?  If you need a certain amount of money to file a class action, shouldn’t you be keeping track of how much each individual gives?  SO you can know how much they owe?

Sandy – Well maybe he didn’t he asked me that too and I said I don’t know really.  But uh – he’s on the lawsuit.  I’m not even sure who paid on the lawsuit.  Because I wasn’t the one keeping track of it.  I know that I collected $1,200.00 and I paid the lawyer $3,800.00 if you’d like to see the bill I can show it to you. 

Oh.  So now you don’t know.  Because Jim called you on a lie, you claim a lack of knowledge.  Typical.  Also, I’m curious as to how she could pay 2600.00 more than what people gave her when she only gets $1,600.00 in income every month.  HOW MANY MONTHS DID YOU HAVE TO SAVE UP?  IS THAT WHY THIS CLASS ACTION ISN’T FILED YET?  I would like to see the bill.  Would you show it to me?

Jim – I don’t need to see anything.  That’s ok.

Sandy – And now it’s ready to file.  We’re going to be filing it.  We were going to file it in Alberta but it’s going to be filed in BC now with a lawyer.  You knew I was working on getting that lawyer out there and it’s all over the internet how we’re scamming people. 

Jim – Who’s the lawyer?

Sandy – I told you this before but I don’t think I should be disclosing anything to you anymore when you’re putting it all over the internet.

1.  It’s all over the internet that you’re scamming people because you are.


2. At this point you are accusing Jim of things with no evidence.  It’s your go-to MO though.

Jim – I’m putting nothing on the internet Sandy. 

Sandy – They’re getting it from you.  Because nobody else knows anything about this class action. 

Jim – when I got information on the class action –

Sandy – Interrupts –

Jim – Class Action Lawsuit, there was 30+ people on the email that I got it from. I sent you probably another 7 or 8 people. 

Sandy – And they’re not on there.

Jim – You sent the Class Action Lawsuit out to various people and now you’re blaming me for it?  Sorry.  Doesn’t work.

Yes.  That’s exactly what she’s doing.   She thinks everyone’s as petty as she is.

Sandy – You uh you gave it out to the people on the website. on facebook that have no intention of going on it.  On the class action. 

Jim – Who did I give it to?

Sandy – I don’t know that but that Williams woman told me that you gave it to her.  I don’t know how you say her first name but she texted me that you gave it to her. 

Jim – because you asked her to ask me to give it to her. 

Sandy – No I didn’t Jim

Jim – I saw the conversation Sandy.

Sandy – I said ask him about it.  I did not say give it to him.  give it to her I said ask him about it.  because you-

Jim (interrupts) – You said ask me about it because you wanted me.  You told her to ask me about it so she asked me about it and I gave it to her. 

Sandy – Well, I didn’t tell you to give it to her.

Well, you also didn’t tell him NOT to give it to her either.  You sent it to him on an email of about 30 people, so obviously he didn’t think he was part of some top secret class action lawsuit club.  You told her to ask him about it so she did and he gave it to her.  Not rocket science.  And not a huge indiscretion like you are making it out to be.

Sandy – And now quite a few people are quite upset about that.

Oh.  Like you and your multiple personalities?  And your equally crazy admin?

Jim – What did you expect me to do?  Someone asked me for information

Sandy – I expected you to tell her you were also on that class action and until you got upset with me everything was all fine and dandy on that class action. 

Jim – I’m not upset with you at all.  I’m disappointed Sandy. 

Sandy – I’m disappointed in you too Jim.  I’m very disappointed you know?  We’re all in this together.  And this whole thing you know?  My children can read.  on the internet.  And in fact I heard somewhere today that my daughter is having a whole lot of problems right now because of what you guys are doing on the internet.  And I have another tidbit that my ex-husband is not getting my daughter because the abuse has been proven.  so the next time you want to call me a child abuser in public, you better have back up on that and not from Lorelei B(redacted) or my ex-husband.  Because it is slander. 

Her children can read.  On the internet.  Like all the awful lies she’s telling about the father, and about the kids and their abuse.  I’m sure that the daughter has been having problems for years.  That’s what happens when one (or both, but in this case one) of the parents tries to use the children in an emotional tug a war.  Slander has to be spoken.  If Jim didn’t speak it, it would be considered libel.  But…. It’s only libel if it’s untrue.  Courts have made decisions that Sandy alienated her children.  Parental alienation is…. you guessed it.  Child abuse.   It’s not libel if it’s true.  Truth is the ultimate defense.  As well as the Lorelei B information, the judge found her credible, as much as Sandy hates that fact.

Anyways.  I underestimated how much time it would take to transcribe this recording.   This is actually only the first 5.5 minutes.  I really have to get some things done here, so I’ll come back to this when I can.

I am going to start transcribing the extremely “aggressive” facebook conversation that Jim and Sandy had with each other that she referenced on her Facebook Live that I wrote about on January 11, 2018.

I am not sure what the rules are about screenshots and blogs, so to keep my blog on the straight and narrow, I’m going to type them out, as well as provide my opinion of course, since I kinda have a big mouth and am pretty sure that I can’t keep it closed, even when it makes sense for me to.

Like this whole blog.  I have no dog in this fight.  I could have kept silent, I was completely on the sidelines.   The only reason I could have to write this blog is to expose her and try to save some other people some heartache.

Unfortunately, Jim got caught in her cross-hairs, and she assumed that he was the one that had shared the information that started the “attack” in Real Mothers of Canada.  Sandy has always done a lot of assuming.  She assumes that she a following of thousands of people.  She assumes that everyone agrees with what she’s doing.  So on the off-chance that someone may disagree, that HAS to be the person that has launched the “attack”.  I’m starting to feel stupid even saying attack in quotations, so from now on the “attack” that Sandy refers to (unless I’m typing her own words about the said “attack”) will be called the first public exposure of the truth.

January 1, 9:42 p.m.

Sandy Giesbrecht – Hey jim are you participating in the email?

January 2^nd 9:17 a.m.

Jim – Good Morning Sandy……. ABSOLUTELY!  If you have an example email that you are sending out can you send it to me along with email addresses that you have?  I will post it on my personal page tomorrow and also get a hold of the FRAC people to get it out on the network.  I think that it is a great idea to start to work together and I will do my part as best I can!  I am heading back home later this afternoon and will send you a txt when I am on the road.  If it works maybe we can have a chat?

Sandy – I have two letters.  They will be finished later today.  One on the abuse being ignored and foster care.  And one written by FRM guy.  The email addresses are almost complete.

January 2^nd at 10:14 p.m.

Jim – Hey Sandy….. I just read your letter and for the most part it is really good.  My opinion is that you are attacking dads when you fail to recognize that there are cases when moms abuse and even kill a child (look up a case regarding a child named Amber Lucius and her mom Laura Coward).

This was where IMO after watching how Sandy acts on FB, things went wrong for Jim.  Jim is an activist.  Specifically for Father’s Rights.  He saw something in that email that was a direct contradiction to his cause.  So he spoke up.  Because he was under the impression that they were two activists having a conversation, and that Sandy would be open to his opinion.  She wasn’t

Sandy – We attacked no one

Jim – I am heading to bed in a bit and will edit some of your letter to send out in the morning!

Sandy – We are not about gender and we only used the one case that is in the media now.

• There is a letter on there from a FRM guy.


• You can use that if you like

Jim – this story is from 2017 as well!

Sandy – And I know women kill.  It’s nothing about that it’s the court not helping families. 

• It happened awhile back but she sentenced now I guess.


• The one we used is what our problem is not that parents kill kids

How is the case you used what your problem is Sandy?  Please elaborate.  You used a tragic case in BC where a father killed both his girls then attempted to kill himself.  It’s a very fresh tragedy, and all the facts are not out yet, and likely won’t be out for years.

Jim – so then take the father’s story to show that it really is neutral.

Sandy – No a lot of work has gone into this and we are ready to go there are two letters

• We are not about gender.

If you are not about gender why was there a 2 page letter for fathers to send and a 4 page letter for mothers to send?

Jim – Where is the FRM letter??

Sandy – On punished

• What is the fathers story


• You speak of


• To be honest jim a father from the fathers rights helped a lot with that letter. There is no bashing.

Jim – the one in your letter about December….. Please trust me that sending this one with the dad story, leans towards you as a biased, pissed off mom.  The letter is good without that.  Keep it neutral.

Here is Jim’s second “mistake”.  He still felt like they were two activists having a slight disagreement here.  I can see it.  At this point, he still 100% believed Sandy’s story.  He had had her on his radio show a month before.  He trusted that she was what she acted like with him and his groups.  He had no idea that she was in fact, a biased, pissed off mom.  And him saying that triggered her to be even more selfish and pigheaded.   Please know, when I say that this is Jim’s mistake, I’m not placing any blame on him.  He got blindsided.  He believed in someone, and found out that they were not who he perceived them to be.  People do this all the time and it is NOT his fault.

Sandy – No it doesn’t.  You are the first and only person that has said anything and it’s been past at least 50 guys before it was posted. 

• We have put lots of time into it.


• You are welcome to send out your own.


• If it was a woman who did the killing you wouldn’t be saying the same thing. It’s in there to show the court ignored signed and failed to help the family.  The blame is on the court not the father.

At this point, Sandy is talking out of her ass.  I’d like to see her name the 50 guys that read it before it was posted.  I don’t doubt that someone put lots of time into those letters, but I can guarantee it wasn’t her.  Jim may have been welcome to send out his own letter, but by doing so he’s still standing united on your cause.  And he doesn’t agree with what you are saying.  And now she starts gaslighting.  If it was a woman who did the killing you wouldn’t be saying the same thing.  It’s in there to show the court ignored signed and failed to help the family.  The blame is on the court not the father.  How can she know what Jim would say if it was a woman who had “done the killing”.  Also, the courts were making sure Dad got parenting time.  Likely because there was no evidence of abuse.   I haven’t read the court decision or too much on this case because frankly when children pass, it makes me sad.  And for someone to try to use deceased children to further their agenda is incredibly sad.

Jim – Sandy, sorry that you are not seeing the bigger picture here.  I would be telling you the same thing if it was only a story about a woman because again you would be only showing one side of this tragedy.  Either put in a story for each mother and father or leave them out… is all that I am saying.

For someone who is involved in a movement that is about EQUAL RIGHTS, I believe what he says sounds truthful.  I also am failing to see him being aggressive in any way at this point.  He is disagreeing.  But she is the one that is sending multiple messages in a row.   If anyone is being aggressive it’s Sandy, but actually, at this point I don’t see either of them as being aggressive.

January 3 at 10:59 p.m.

Sandy – Hey jim.  Did you decide not to send and email?

Jim didn’t respond to this on the third.  As someone who was sooooo aggressive…. You’d think he would have responded right away and been like NO FUCK YOUR EMAIL AND FUCK YOU.   But he didn’t.  Likely because he’s not aggressive.

January 8 at 8:28 p.m.

Jim – Hey Sandy.  Your txt yesterday was unwarranted.  All I did was point out something that would make your email help out more parents.  Seems to me that when I am in agreement with you things are ok.  If I say something you do not like it is an attack.  I do not think you realize that you are actually making things worse for parents and giving abusers licence to continue.  How is this working together.

Jim is 100% correct and accurate in this statement.  From my conversations with him so far, Jim comes across as someone who actually wants to make a difference.  And he’s realizing at this point that Sandy is not 100% who she said she is.  I am not privy to what the text said. And either way, it actually doesn’t matter to me.  But this facebook message does not make him aggressive.

Sandy – As I stated I’m not engaging in a fight so please do not send me messages of this nature.

I feel like Sandy didn’t truly say what she meant there.  Here, I’ll revise it for her.  Sandy – As I said before I’m not interested in anyone’s opinion unless they are exactly the same as my own, so unless you are willing to agree with me, please don’t message me and waste my time.

Jim – Wow.  You clearly have an agenda that does not involve all parents.  Thanks for exposing this early on so as to limit any further damages.  You sadly have forgotten why you are even connected to this group.  It was me who brought you into this group and now you have revealed your true colors.  Again, wow.

I feel sad for Jim here.  I feel like he had a lot of hope of Sandy and Punished helping to further the movement.  I feel like he feels embarrassed for not listening to some of the naysayers, and that he’s incredibly disappointed in Sandy.  At this point, they have been communicating for months.

Sandy – Just because I have a different opinion than you jim does not mean that I am a bad person or have bad intentions.  You did not bring me into punished 4 Protecting so I don’t know where you got that I was involved long before I spoke with you.  I also have no agenda and not even sure where you have come up with that from me disagreeing with you about a letter that close to 10,000 have now sent.  I am not about gender nor am I about the parents.  The kids are what matters as they can’t protect themselves.  People disagree all the time.  That’s what life is about.  If there wasn’t any disagreement there would be no learning.  People learn from other people’s point of view.  I’m sorry you think I am allowing abusers to continue.  How you figure that I have no clue.  You didn’t tell me how you got that from the letter.  I am also not going to engage into a fight with you but if it makes you feel better about yourself to call me down then please feel free to do so as it doesn’t bother me.  I’m sorry we are on a different page but unfortunately that’s where we are.  You have stated you think I’m doing wrong so you are the one who put I out there not me.  I don’t agree with a lot of things you do but I supported you anyway because I thought you were someone who warranted that.  Sorry you think different about me.  I hope things work out for you the way you hope they do.

Pot meet kettle.  Sandy got annoyed that Jim had a different opinion.  Sandy said Nope- letter’s getting send.  Sandy apparently sent a text that was unwarranted (again, I don’t know what it was, but Jim seems to not be overly sensitive in these facebook messages, so it must have been something that he felt needed to be addressed.  He feels like Sandy was bashing Fathers.  That’s his movement.  He wasn’t ok with that.  I’m sure he, as most other people do, thinks Parental Alienation is a crime.  Sandy won’t see that, as she thinks that Parental Alienation is a hate crime against women *eyeroll*, so she doesn’t see how he can say that she would allow abusers to continue.  At this point, he’s ready to cut ties with her silently.

January 10 9:17 p.m.

Sandy – Jim, I never said anything negative about you and I never mentioned your name publicly.  I do not rip people down in public and I think you know this.  Whatever is being said about you has not come from me and I shut it down earlier today.  Because it’s not something that I support no matter what the person has done.  It shows cracks in the cause and makes it weak.

I do not want to be dragged into this fight at all.  It does nothing for the cause and I do not want to be apart of it.  I think what you did to L (redacted) was wrong.  It was uncalled for.  I’m not sure why you felt the need to try to hurt her or what you got out of that?

We have a platform that can actually make a change.  Over 9000 letters went out.  More could have.  Doing it again can increase more.  We have people from all different stories that need to be told.  It doesn’t have to be the same story for each letter.  Fighting within is only doing harm.  You chose to rip me down and say L (redacted) was saying things about me.  I don’t find it to be productive trying to hurt people.  And that’s why I blocked you.

From all these convos, and my brief conversation with Jim, I don’t think he’s out to try to hurt people.  I think he got to the point where he saw the truth and wanted to expose it.  I’m also sure that there was some people attacking (and maybe only Sandy and her multiple socks) away from the public eye, and Jim’s friends, since he’s well-connected in some movements, got wind of it and stood up for him.

January 10 at 11:23 p.m.

Jim – Sandy, I just watched your video done earlier today.  When you refer to “the father from the father’s rights” who are you referring to?  Sounds like a pretty negative comment about me.  When you state that you do not say my name you speak truth however when you say you said nothing negative that’s a lie.  Someone who knows me thought I needed to know and sent me the video before you took it off P4P.  You brought this fight onto yourself, blaming me will not help you.  Truth is strange and karma is a bitch.

This message is after the facebook live I wrote about on January 11.  I have seen no aggression towards Sandy from Jim.

Sandy – What I said was the truth.  Please don’t message me again as long as you want to fight.  Cause I’m not going to.  I also did not take down the video it’s still there. 

Jim – unblock me to prove it.

Sandy – I don’t have to prove anything to you.  I have tried to work with you.  I gave L(redacted) the ability to write the next letter out of good faith but I don’t have to prove anything while you want to be hostile.  I’m not fighting this fight I have told you that for days and you continue to want to drag me into it.  I have no reason to take down the video there is nothing in it.  I spoke the truth.  Your emailed L(redacted) hateful hurtful stuff to try to divide.  And that’s wrong.  And I don’t care if you continue the attack I didn’t ask you to stop.  That was not why I messaged you.

This is the end of their disagreement of messenger.  Pretty benign stuff.  Jim only messaged Sandy when she messaged him.  He didn’t attack her and he wasn’t rude.  But let’s address this video.  She says, what she said on the video was the truth.

A good liar will tell half-truths.  Because it’s easier to remember a story if there’s half-truths involved.   Sandy talks about how he’s continued the fight.  Jim has not so much as messaged Sandy unless she messages him first.   Perhaps his friends may have continued the fight.  His friends had his back and wanted to expose her so they did.  His friends posted factual articles.  Factual Court Decisions.  And in time, Brainsyntax links that covered Sandy.  And a link to this blog, which is being written with a lot of direct proof, and some opinion.

Sandy’s truth that she told, is that there was a disagreement about the fact that Jim wanted an article about a woman killing their kids in the email.  Or nothing at all.  But she didn’t mention that he had suggested that option on live.    She then goes on to say how he got too aggressive for her and she blocked him.  I’m pretty sure she may have blocked him a few times in the course of these conversations.  Whenever she didn’t like what he had to say even when it’s not aggressive.

She also says that the court decisions and media articles are untrue.  Because you know, she didn’t kidnap her children from foster care, she didn’t get caught in the bushes in a park, and she didn’t sideswipe a police car.  The media are just liars!

Anyways, this (unfortunately) wasn’t the end of Jim’s interaction with Sandy.